The Creative's Couch

Unlocking The Breath: Reece Richardson on Enhancing Performance and Creative Expression

Gemma Naylor

Discover the transformative power of breath and presence in performance with Reece Richardson, an accomplished actor and voice coach. Together, we unravel the mysteries of how breath impacts relaxation and presence during auditions, helping actors unlock their full range of choices. Reece shares his expert insights on overcoming tension and the fight or flight response, guiding performers towards a more truthful connection with their craft. Whether you're an actor seeking to master your auditions or a public speaker aiming to captivate your audience, you'll gain valuable tools to enhance your performance.

Explore the fascinating world of breathwork and voice training as we dive into Reece's work with U.S. veterans in classical theater. We discuss the importance of authentic expression through breathing and speaking, drawing inspiration from the natural voices of infants. The conversation offers practical tips for recognizing vocal fatigue and employing proper warm-up techniques to prevent damage, ultimately enhancing your creative performance and communication skills. By understanding and utilizing breath, performers can reach new heights in their storytelling abilities.

Join us as we navigate the challenges of the performance industry, emphasizing time, patience, and self-compassion. Reece underscores the importance of treating performers as human beings, not machines, and the need for community and support in the creative arts. Through personal anecdotes, like the collaborative joy found in "Peaky Blinders, the Rise," we highlight the transformative power of creating a supportive environment. This episode celebrates the rewarding journey of working in the creative arts, acknowledging the talented and generous people who make this journey worthwhile.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Creatives Couch with me, gemma Naylor. Today's guest is an accomplished actor and musician. He's a highly sought after voice and acting coach. It is the marvellous Rhys. Thank you for joining me on the Creative Scout.

Speaker 2:

It's my pleasure.

Speaker 1:

So you sit on some of the most well the audition panels with some of the most prestigious drama schools in the country. What would you say is the first thing you notice about an actor when they walk into the room?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question, I think. For me it's that they're breathing. It's a really simple thing and that kind of informs. Are they relaxed? Are they in the space? That kind of informs? Are they relaxed? Are they in the space? Um, because it's quite a simple thing to notice once you kind of see the signs. Are they? Are they connected with the breath? Are they present? Are they sort of very nervous? How are they feeling?

Speaker 2:

I think a lot of the things that people instinctively notice when anyone walks into the room because it's a human being who's walking into the space, yeah, despite the sort of, you know, very heightened environment, being an audition panel and there's nerves and things like that. But I think, if they are, if they're breathing and available and working with the nerves, to me that's very exciting. When I see that, um, yeah, because it kind of means that, despite everything else that's going on, we're going to get something truthful. They're going to explore the work else that's going on. We're going to get something truthful, they're going to explore the work, and that's where the focus is. So that's, I think, what I notice immediately.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's really fascinating. What are the clues to you, sort of as an expert in this field, that somebody isn't utilising their breath or they are disconnected from it and unaware sort of how it's impacting them?

Speaker 2:

One of the key things is relaxation.

Speaker 2:

There is an element of relaxation within that.

Speaker 2:

So if somebody is sort of breathing, they're quite tense, it can restrict the the, the breath dropping deeper into the body and connects into a kind of more truthful place, a more open place.

Speaker 2:

Um, so if somebody's quite tense or if they seem very if the breast sort of held high in the body so you can sort of see the chest maybe moving a bit more and the ribs maybe aren't sort of swinging open and shut, subtle things, it suggests to me and this is not the case in every single case, there's never anything that's sort of blanket that they're potentially not accessing the full capacity of their sort of respiratory system and so they might not, they might not be able to access the all of the choices that are available to them. So I think those sort of slight physical signs as well as a kind of a psychological suggestion of, okay, this person might be a bit tense, how do we relax them, how do we get them so that they're not restricting themselves within their work, yeah, does that make sense, I guess, if someone's feeling sort of in that fight or flight mode and they're in that survival headspace.

Speaker 1:

They're not going to give a beautifully relaxed performance full of choices, like you said, because they're just like get to the end. Get to the end, survive, get through it yeah, completely.

Speaker 2:

And I think you've heard something really interesting there for me, which is that fight or flight, and, and when you're in that mode, the body instinctively is kind of tensing up, it's wanting to explosively respond to a perceived threat, whether that's sort of psychological, whether it's physical, and it just means that, yeah, those choices are potentially not going to be quite as dynamic as they could be. And so when it's in that environment of an audition, I go how do we help you to relax since that? How do we help you just go OK, I accept what's going on, I know where I am, I'm safe here, let's do the work.

Speaker 1:

So what would you because you've done a lot of work with sort of public speakers and actors, with audition technique Do you find that there's one thing in particular that you know people about to give a performance are afraid of, that triggers that sort of the nervousness or the fight or flight response? Or is it very different in each individual?

Speaker 2:

It can be very different in each individual. I think there's no one size fits all, which is something that I love about working with a voice it's really tailored to each individual person. Um, however, there are things that are common factors. The nervousness is, is, is is the first thing. So, wanting to do the perfect performance or the perfect speech, the intention is wonderful, wonderful, but it can put you into a space where you're going.

Speaker 2:

What happens if it goes wrong or I'm not? You know, I'm forecasting in my head that all of the things that I want to avoid are all the things that are potentially problems, and I think what that does is that then stops you from being here and now, in the moment, in the present moment, and a bit like this sort of fight or flight response. If you're constantly on the lookout for threats, you're going. Where is the danger here? What should I avoid? What should I do? Where do I need to be?

Speaker 2:

Rather than going, I accept where I am. I'm here in this moment and this is actually what's happening, not sort of forecasting or looking backwards. I'm just here right now, and I think when somebody just allows the breath to sort of drop in, it just allows those moments where you're in the future or in the past to go. Okay, I understand, I accept that. I accept this is a nervous situation, but what's in front of me actually is another person who I'm talking to. Yeah, I'm safe. Yeah, I'm safe exactly Because, at this exact moment, you are safe, because the things that you're potentially afraid of happening are not happening. And I think that it sounds really basic and really silly, but I think there's great power in that, because you're able to reset for a brief split second, a moment, to just go. Oh, yeah, actually I'm all right. Okay, great, there's this moment, then the next moment also might be all right, and then the one after that, and after that, and after that, yeah, and that becomes quite exciting because then you're in the moment.

Speaker 1:

yeah, for me it's kind of as simple as that, I think gosh, I think it's really exciting sort of the techniques and viewpoints you're bringing to the creative industries at the moment. I feel they're things that have been explored in sort of professional sport for quite a while. So that moment of being really present and not just focusing on the job in front of them, I feel like as creators we often we don't really engage with that. We just expect people to be able to perform under pressure without any kind of real psychological training. What drew you to be so fascinated towards? You know, the breath and its power.

Speaker 2:

A couple of things. I think when I was younger, I did a lot of swimming and I think that involves breath control, because there are moments where you're underwater so you can't like you literally can't breathe. You learn quickly that you're underwater, so you can't like you literally can't breathe.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you learn quickly that you had to when you could, exactly exactly and I think that's that sort of first instinctively from from a, from a sort of sports perspective, started that journey and then I was I was very fortunate when I went um to drama school to, to have that world sort of opened up for me by by, by the tutors there and I think that sort of ignited this real enjoyment, like love and passion of, of actually what the potential of the breath can be um and sort of from central.

Speaker 2:

Then and then over the last kind of 10 years of working in the industry, I've been very, very lucky to meet some phenomenal people, people that are far more skilled than I am, that are, you know, including the tutors at Central, who are real sort of world leaders, and I think what that does is you're constantly exposed to different ideas and you can go okay, how do I, how do I fit into this? What, what, what do I find exciting? I was very fortunate to work in the U? S and worked with a company called Aquila theater and they have something called the warrior course which is where they take and work with, with U S veterans, with within classical theater, so particularly like Greek tragedy it's a phenomenal company and we were touring around the United States.

Speaker 2:

We were sort of based in New York and then you go around the whole of the US and you go to lots of different places that are not necessarily on the beaten track and we were doing workshops and working with people over there and I think that was really fascinating because you're working with people over there.

Speaker 2:

And I think that was really fascinating because you're working with people who are from a very different life experience to myself and coming from a creative background, and the power of breath sort of for, particularly for the veterans, was very interesting what that means to somebody who's breathing in the US. There's some really exciting work that has been done with the Navy SEALs on that, so kind of Tondo breathing, the Wim Hof work, and that's fascinating to me. I think the appreciation for how powerful that really simple biological process actually is is something that's gaining traction in the West now but has been known across the world, other cultures, for thousands of years yeah, we're a bit behind, just a little yeah exactly, but I think what's joyous about that is it's coming at it going.

Speaker 2:

This is not new stuff. This is, this is things that people have been doing for thousands of years. But how do we fit in that within a very stressful modern world, within the creative industries particularly, how do we utilise the knowledge that's come before and implement it in a practical way? And I think that's and that for me, has been very exciting.

Speaker 2:

As an actor and then working with other people who sort of come to me and want to explore the voice and want to explore the breath work, I kind of go great, let's have a look at the basics, and then there's all of these amazing practitioners that you can look at. That are, you know, really developed in the field? How do we practically get you to kind of where you're interested in exploring at this point point? Are you basically, are you kind of getting out of your own way a little bit? Yeah, to then be able to tell the stories, speak the speeches, communicate in the way that you want to. So there's no again, there's no one size fits all, and I'm quite passionate about that because I don't. I don't like that being like there's a right or wrong way to speak or breathe.

Speaker 1:

You speak how you speak um so is it helping people get back to kind of their purest form? Would you say that's part of the like?

Speaker 2:

how would you describe it. It's a nice way of putting it. I think it's just.

Speaker 2:

I think it's allowing somebody to speak authentically yeah to breathe authentically and to, to, to connect with something very simple and just have an appreciation of something very basic, and I really like that because I think it's. You can get wrapped up in kind of things that complicated, they are mysterious or mystique, and I feel like that sets up a bit of a hierarchy that could be very exclusive for people. And you know the body want, the body wants to breathe. You look at a baby. Yeah, a bit. A child is phenomenal. Little children, little babies.

Speaker 2:

They can scream and they can scream and scream, and scream and they never lose the voice no, no, vocal fatigue they keep going and they can just go for for hours and hours now, and it's desperately, you know, frustrating for a parent, potentially, but as a when you're looking at the biomechanics of that and I'm not a, you know, I'm not a scientist or a doctor but when you're looking at the biomechanics of that and I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but when you're looking at that, how does that sort of infant not lose its voice when it's using such a vocal extremity? Because there's not really any sort of emotional tension, there's not really any extra tension. They're just thinking, feeling, breathing, speaking all at the same time, or, you know, without any instinct on top of it. Yeah, exactly, and so that's for me. How do you, as a performer, tap into that a little bit?

Speaker 2:

yeah, which is almost reverting back to the childlike state when you're able to, just, from a relaxed place, be present, be present, be truthful, and then you're less likely to to do damage because there's not extra things going on that are potentially getting in the way so is that because you've worked with a lot of people who've had sort of vocal issues concerns nodules, fatigue?

Speaker 1:

do you think their use of the breath can contribute to those issues, or would you say it's quite a separate issue?

Speaker 2:

I think it's all linked, I think, certainly if I'm when I work with people who are experiencing vocal challenges or vocal issues, because I'm not a healthcare practitioner. For me it's very, very early stages and there's a few sort of common warning signs within those things. You know, particularly pain. If there's any pain within your vocal tract, it's you know. You know pain is usually a good sign. It should be a time to pop to the doctor and you know, yes, don't ignore it, don't ignore it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, it's like.

Speaker 2:

That's kind of probably your body telling you that something is potentially being damaged here, the discomfort I remember a respiratory physio told me a long time ago. They said discomfort is good when you're rehabilitating yourself, but pain is, is the body's way of saying careful, some damage is being done somewhere. So I always took that as a good marker for myself, particularly when I was doing roles or parts that are particularly extreme, kind of a lot of screaming, shouting, crying that's what I would classify as like a vocal extreme where there's a risk of damage. Um, and if you are doing those parts, it should be warming up a lot, not just jumping in yeah, hydrating some people can do that, which is amazing, you know.

Speaker 2:

And again, sort of, for me, I find vocal warm. It's very, very useful and I think the more that you do them, the more it becomes just second nature and the quicker you can tap into it. So it's that sort of discipline equaling freedom, that kind of thing, you know? Um, yeah, I think, but sorry, back to your original question. I diverted away from it.

Speaker 2:

It is yes, I think it's very linked um, because if there's damage or if there's pain, you're potentially going to tense up and then it kind of becomes a sort of vicious cycle. Yeah, vocal nodules and things like that have got a real fear and a stigma against them. If there is any sort of concern within the work of the performer or if there is any suggestion that potentially those things are happening, for me it's yeah, gp, and see if you can get seen by an ent, you know ear, nose and throat specialist, and get them to sort of have a look they may need to kind of put you know cameras and things to look at.

Speaker 2:

But I think you can help it. You can help alleviate the systems by relaxing, by finding a place where you can work that is free of tension.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because someone told me years and years ago and it really stuck with me and it was an Indian meditation kind of guru really when I was doing some studying over there, and they said that the breath was the gateway between the mind and body. So when someone's experienced anxiety, you can calm that and release tension from just connecting with your breath. Are you in agreement with that? Yeah, you'd say that that's pretty accurate. I think that's lovely.

Speaker 2:

I think when we think of voice and body, we tend to think of them as two separate things, or it's something that I've noticed from going into some of the casts that I've worked in, or myself as well. You know, you sometimes think it's different.

Speaker 1:

Separate them. With some of the casters I've worked in, or myself as well, you know you sometimes think separate them. You're like it's one thing, yeah, it's one machine.

Speaker 2:

I think that was one of the things that I was fortunate within the training that I did you know, gosh, 10, 10, 11 years ago now was that it broke down that barrier for me in my head, where, when actually everything's linked and so if you do one thing to one part of your body, it's going to have an impact elsewhere as well, um, and that is really exciting because I think you're able to. Then, if you're able to work on one aspect of it like, as you said, the gateway is a beautiful analogy you you're opening those gates to start finding a freedom and a connection with the body and the breath. So you're doing a lot of things all at the same time by focusing on one or two aspects, which I think is exciting between the mind and the body, thinking of it as one thing yep and interconnected deeply, it is far more powerful.

Speaker 2:

I mean you stop, or the average person if they go without breath for three minutes, that's it that's not long, it's a very short space of time. Yeah and when you think of it, with within the body. If the body isn't breathing, the mind isn't able to function, the body's not able to function yeah, so yeah, I think never.

Speaker 1:

I think that's spot on personally what would be your um, like most simple breath exercise to give to somebody who's sort of listening now going. You know what? I'm interested in this but I'm quite anxious. I find it really hard to sit. Still, I'm not going to have the focus to do breath work Because it doesn't sound very exciting, does it? Oh they're breathing like I do all the time. Now I'm going to do exercises on it, so where would you start with, like a complete beginner? What would be your sort of introduction to it?

Speaker 2:

You hit something spot on for me, which is the fact that we do it all the time. Yeah, absolutely. And why sit here and talk about something that we do as a basic thing? It's like talking about how your heart's beating right, I'm just doing it every time. It's like, yes, you are, that is completely correct. But bringing an awareness to that basic function is powerful. But bringing an awareness to that basic function is powerful. One of the wonderful things of calming nerves certainly in my own experience is if you allow yourself to just question am I breathing? Especially if you're in the middle of really feeling very nervous or very anxious. Just that simple question it resets a lot of what's going on. It can actually divert the mind from sort of going off on a path to just going on my breathing. Oh yeah, I am breathing, I am, I'm alive. And then it starts that process we were talking about earlier I'm safe, I'm okay, instinctively so. For me, that would be where I would start, even before we start breathing.

Speaker 1:

It's a mental training first? Yeah, I think I think so.

Speaker 2:

I think so. It's again, it's just my opinion with it, but I find that's the most effective for me and for the, for the clients I work with and for the, for the people I work with. That gentle question, before you start any of the work, just am I breathing? Yeah, and by bringing the awareness to the breath, it just grounds you in the moment for free, instantly. Um, there's there's a lot of talk about sort of panic attacks and and you know that that kind of work and and how, like, for example, there was the other thing on planes where you'd have, like a car, a paper bag, right?

Speaker 2:

and you get someone to breathe into the paper bag and kind of so for me it's interesting because the it's kind of the breath doing a lot of the heavy lifting there, where it's sort of slowing down that process and just going. Am I breathing? Yeah, cool, cool, cool. Okay, that basic biological function is happening. Okay, I can now reset and work on the rest of the things In terms of practical breath work for a complete beginner simply taking your hand and placing it just below the belly button.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm going to do it with you now.

Speaker 2:

It's really simple yeah, and I think just all that does is when you place your hand below your belly button and you just enjoy the sensation of the hand rising and falling away from the body and then back into the body. So away from the body on the in-breath and then back towards the body on the out-breath, you are actively taking your breath from a sort of high place in the body to somewhere a little bit lower, which is accessing the lower parts of your lungs, and so you're accessing that full breath capacity and then that's slowing down your breath and when you think about that fight or flight that we were talking about earlier, a lot of times you're going to breathe in oxygen very quickly quite shallow breaths, quick breaths because you need to potentially go into action yeah but if you're able to slow the breath down, it's telling the body I'm actually in a relaxed state, so you're kind of actively engaging with an unconscious process.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you're making the unconscious conscious really excited and it's everyone can do it, everyone do it. It's for free and that simple process I think. Then I mean, because you know we can talk, we can write lyrical about some of the more um kind of in in-depth breath techniques, the kind of complex stuff that's exciting. That is absolutely part of it.

Speaker 2:

But for me, starting there, yeah slowing the breath down, getting it dropping deeper into the body is, um, where actually I found a lot of the exciting work happens. That's a long answer to your question. No, no, it's brilliant I.

Speaker 1:

Just how much do you think um? Our control of our breath affects the pitch and tone of our voice.

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. I think it has an influence on it, um, because it's part of the process. It's the thing that starts everything else going. Before the word, there's the breath. There's the biomechanical process of breathing in and then breathing out, when then making sound from there. So I think it definitely has an impact in terms of how the sound is formed. I think it definitely has an impact in terms of how the sound is formed that differs from person to person. In my sort of limited experience with that, it's not something that I've noticed.

Speaker 2:

Okay, if you breathe like this, it's going to definitively make this sound, because everyone's voices is unique and everything that comes to that.

Speaker 1:

So would you say it's more. Maybe I'm just conscious when I get voice. I'm a big fan of voice notes. You know, yeah, they're great but you can hear when somebody is stressed, often their their tone is a bit higher and they speak a lot faster. I'm just thinking in terms of, like what you say, when you bring your breath very much to your acting work and your coaching work, how much that impacts sort of yeah, the vocal performance that we're giving in terms of the emotion that's expressed.

Speaker 2:

How much of that choice, if we're not aware of our breath, is conscious I think that, for me, is where it becomes exciting when you're, when you're making something that is unconscious conscious, yeah you have more of a control not necessarily the right word you have more influence over it and you can work with it. And then with the more, the more sort of relaxed you are, the more present you are with that process, the more authentic the voice is going to be. It's going to be therefore more true, which I think is exciting as an actor, because when I'm working as a performer, what I want is how, how can I be truthful in this, how can I serve the story, story and be in communication with the other person and the audience, the listeners or the people watching. And when you're more relaxed, you're going to be more authentic, I think because you're not necessarily getting in your own way.

Speaker 2:

And that's what excites me, because it's like, if I can help anybody within that process, even if it's just going, I can. If I can help anybody within that process, even if it's just going, oh yeah, I feel a bit more relaxed here. I'm like, great, that's gonna have a. That's gonna be beneficial for you, because you're not gonna be as stressed, you're not. Yeah, you know your blood pressure is gonna go down, you're gonna. You're gonna be able to focus more on what's actually important in the moment. The other person is the most important thing, like it becomes less about you and more about what you're sharing and you become freer and less stuck.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I find that's more conducive to the creative process. Is is being flexible, is being changeable, and it's very interesting watching two people with very different opinions clash, because often it gets very tight and constrained and and the voices shut down and then the breath shuts down and then we stop sort of sharing with each other. And I think in the world at the moment there's a lot of very um, strong opinions on all sides and like it's good to have a bit of flexibility within that, a bit of nuance and ability to listen, be heard and hear, and I think sharing, sharing the breath with somebody else is is the basic of that for me, just the basics. I find super exciting. I think it allows us to be again present in the moment and genuinely listen to what the other person is saying and not just kind of go like you know, you've been part of those conversations before what you can tell the other person isn't really listening they're preparing their reply and you're like I haven't finished speaking yet exactly so.

Speaker 2:

It becomes less of a communion and more of two, two opinions clashing yeah um, whereas if you're present, within the breath and that moment, that basic is there and I think the other person goes oh yeah, actually this person is quite relaxed, they're present with me, I feel like I can also be authentic. So that then starts a whole cycle of very exciting things where your listeners, your audience, are starting to relax and they're really seeing the story that's being told. And that's what's exciting, because it becomes not about you or what's going?

Speaker 1:

on, it becomes about the story or the speech or the message that you're trying to share yeah, because I think you said something very interesting early on about when you know a potential well, an actor comes into the room to audition and how you pick up on their nervousness. So if you're doing that as part of an audition panel, an audience are going to be doing that, surely, when performers are on the stage, and I think that's something that we often overlook when we are in. You know, we don't really always consider that, do we?

Speaker 2:

no, and I think again that all of the scenarios are going to be nerve-wracking. Yeah, you know any situation where you are talking to other people there's an element of nerves when you meet people for the first time, when you're going up on stage to speak in front of a thousand people or ten people, or if you're leading a class, or if you're gonna. You know if you're doing. I don't know if you're doing.

Speaker 1:

You know lady macbeth, or if you're doing like filming or anything.

Speaker 2:

There is an element of performative nerves within that, but I think for me it's about accepting that. Yeah, and I think the breath help has helped me personally to accept some very challenging moments in in my personal life and also professional, and you go. Okay, I accept. I kind of can't change the fact that this is nervous, but I embrace that that then loses its power and it becomes not the most important thing in what's happening. It becomes more about who am I speaking to. Why am I speaking to them? You know, what do I want to share with them? And listen.

Speaker 2:

It becomes quite exciting then.

Speaker 1:

A hundred percent. How would you help someone overcome I'm trying to think of the best way to describe this, so I know you're not specifically a singing, singing coach, but obviously you do a lot of work with the voice. So someone who's coming back from sort of a vocal injury or something that has been traumatic where they feel they've been exposed on a stage or in performance and they're trying to mentally overcome that, but obviously they don't feel safe in that space anymore.

Speaker 1:

So it's not as simple of them to just go. I am safe here because they're trying to mentally overcome that, but obviously they don't feel safe in that space anymore. So it's not as simple of them to just go. I am safe here because they're replaying what's gone previously. Where would you start helping someone who's been through that kind of trauma to get over it and start feeling safe back in that performance space?

Speaker 2:

It's a great question, Gently with time.

Speaker 1:

Time.

Speaker 2:

Time, yeah, and trying to be as kind to yourself as possible.

Speaker 2:

I think we live in a very immediate world where things are available very, very quickly yeah and there is an expectation that if I do sort of one or two exercises it's going to be there. You know myself and the people that I trained with you know we trained for three years and a lot of that time was spent kind of on the basics, which was a real privilege to have that time to do that. Not everyone has that, you know, opportunity or facility, and I think ever since then all the stuff has been about that I do is about just time and learning and figuring out the trauma. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a psychologist or a therapist but I think I think those are great tools to have in conjunction with with breath work. So I think seeking mental health help if if it's possible is is fantastic and is really beneficial for helping with that process, because sometimes it can be very difficult to re-engage, particularly with something that has been traumatic.

Speaker 2:

It can be very difficult. So having an external professional help is I'd always advocate that and in terms of re-engaging with the professional space, which I think is what you're asking about specifically. Going back to the basics. Back to the basics If you feel like you're overcomplicating it, and I do that all the time because my brain works a million miles an hour and I'm like blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2:

Every time I do that, I go just check back in with the basics again Where's the breath sitting at today? Even before that, am I breathing? Where is the breath? Is it up here? Is it down here? Is it accessible to me? What am I working with vocally? Is there any injuries? What's changed? What do I need to work on for this specific character in this moment, in this work? I think, as long as you are serving the work and the work is the most important thing, that's great. But yeah, yeah, with anything that is, I suppose, trauma related, mental health, I think seeking external help is is really important and particularly with things you know through equity and bapam, which they're great as well.

Speaker 2:

Um, there is, there is sort of support out there for professionals, because some people develop.

Speaker 1:

I've seen it in a few friends of mine who are phenomenally talented and through no fault of their own, either illness or injury, their voice is flipped in front of thousands of people or broken, and then they suddenly have this real stage fright when they've never experienced it before. And then it's obviously quite a big hurdle to overcome and I think people feel pressure to jump back into that big arena. But would your advice be to start small, just start singing around the house. Get really confident there then?

Speaker 2:

I think so because, but each time we sort of reintroduce that and let's be my own personal experience each time you reintroduce gently this is okay. Oh, maybe tomorrow I can do this, maybe a little bit. Like you know, we're talking about the respiratory physio.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if you jump straight in at the top end of the real extreme, you're potentially going to cause pain and then the body's going to respond to that and go protect shut down, shut down, exactly, yeah, stop, stop, stop don't do it, don't do it exactly, um, whereas if we can push it ever so gently, so it's kind of going into the maybe like mild discomfort again, I'm speaking super generally because it should be done really with medical professionals, particularly if it's like vocal nodule recovery or surgery or things like that. Um, that should be done with, yeah, in conjunction with those professionals. If you do it gently over time. I have seen it for me where I've gone, the places that I thought I would never get to, because I've gently reengaged with that simple basic process. Actually, day by day it gets a bit better being kind and patient to yourself and that's hard in a hyper competitive industry. Yeah, I think it's getting better, you know, I do think it's getting better. There is there's more of an acceptance and an awareness that professional performers may need that support.

Speaker 2:

Um, and we're not machines, yeah, yeah, and I think that to me, is really valuable, because the less we're treated like a machine and more like what we are, which is a living, breathing human being, the better, and more like what we are, which is a living, breathing human being, the better and more consistent the work can be. And I think actually, the deeper you can go with the work, the more you can explore the truth of things, because it's safe. If it's safe, you can really tell some quite extraordinary stories, and I think within breath work within breath technique, within acting technique.

Speaker 2:

That's the most important thing telling the story truthfully and safely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so you have this incredibly calming aura around you, oh, thanks. Do you do exercises on a daily basis to maintain that, or would you say that's just your? Natural you just wake up with this very calming demeanour.

Speaker 2:

I wish I woke up every day and I was like that. I think that I have encountered things that have been as we all do, that are difficult and, you know, challenging, and the sort of calmness is definitely, as the people who know me will know, sometimes it's not always the case, you know.

Speaker 2:

But I think I've been very privileged within the work that I do and the people that I've met, the people that I've studied under, the people that I have taken as clients, the people that I've worked with in shows, the people that I've studied under, the people that I have taken as clients, the people that I've worked with in shows, to be around some phenomenal people who have allowed me to explore that sort of calm, I suppose, and just being present in this moment with what's happening and, I think, cumulatively, the more that you do breath work with voice work, the quicker you check back in with it right, and I think that for me has been something that's been cumulative, you know, over the last well, 11 years professionally, three years training it's kind of that is.

Speaker 2:

It's a product, I suppose, of that time that's spent actually rediscovering the joy and the love of the basics, because the interesting thing about those kind of stresses in our lives, or environmental stresses, is that if we're gently exposed to them, I've found that it becomes less and less of a overwhelming thing that then shuts you off and it's like the cold shower sort of techniques or the methodologies.

Speaker 1:

You know which, which that is something I personally enjoy.

Speaker 2:

Um, it's not for everybody, but I quite like it because, like, the more time you introduce that environmental stressor, the more times you realize oh it's actually just this thing, and I saw a brilliant thing which is about um, uh, your brain creating pathways for yourself and the more pathways that you, the more times you walk down the pathway in this kind of proverbial forest, the more worn the path is and the easier it is for your brain to take that same route becomes your natural state more easily, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And then when you're trying to try something else say for example, breath work or voice work for the first time, it'll be strange because the path is not there. So you're kind of carving that, and just by gently doing it as often as you can, the easier that path goes. So for me now, when I'm working on something, what previously might have taken me an hour to touch base with now can take five, ten minutes Amazing.

Speaker 2:

So, you can be in the wings of a show because you've done it over and over again in different circumstances, not necessarily strictly every day. I'm always a bit cautious of kind of rigorous routines. I think I like the fluidity of going. I want to check in with this, I want to try this, I want to play with it. Tomorrow might be different, but the more you do it, the easier and quicker it becomes, I think. And a bit like meditation and all that sort of work. You know it's yeah.

Speaker 1:

So what would your sort of top tip or number one piece of advice be to someone, yeah, who's just graduating out of drama school, who's just coming into the industry? What would sort of your top tip be for sort of longevity within their career?

Speaker 2:

Be kind to yourself.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Be kind to others Sounds really, really basic, but I think it's overlooked a lot of that. Be gentle with yourself. Within that, know you can, know what you want, know what you're working towards. But life can throw a lot of different things, curveballs, a lot of curveballs, and that's great. But I think if you're able to, if you're able to kind of work with those things, accept the things you can change and accept the things you can change and accept the things you can't, to a certain extent I think you will find the process of being a professional actor a bit easier. It's tough. It is tough and it's a tough industry. There's a lot of amazing people in it and actually the community that I've sort of been lucky enough to, to find and continue to find um, has been a tremendous source of joy, um, solidarity and um and grounding within an industry that can be seen from the outside as being something that's very individualistic. I'm like the best work is done, it's collaborative together.

Speaker 2:

Exactly when it's done in support of each other, and I think that, to me, is one of the things that's the most joyous about working in the creative industry. I did a job last year with a cast and they were absolutely phenomenal and it was an immersive show. It was Peaky Blinders, the Rise. It was in Camden. It was great and it was the creative team and the cast, from the directors right the way through to, you know, the front of house team and, yeah, especially the cast and the stage crew were. It was like a family and I think that's really special when that happens. It is, yeah, it is, and I can mean, I can cite all of the experiences. I've been very lucky, actually.

Speaker 1:

It's because you bring good energy to a space as well. I think that has an impact.

Speaker 2:

I don't know that's very kind, I think. I think it's a two way street. You be kind and be gentle with people. They're allowed to do that as well, and so it becomes this two way thing where you're all going, we're safe together. How do we work within this? How do we do the best storytelling? How do we let somebody else who maybe doesn't speak as often or isn't able to speak as often, how do they do that? That's when it becomes exciting.

Speaker 2:

I become very, very, very excited when people who aren't necessarily confident in their voice or want to speak publicly when they start to go actually. Yeah, I can talk, I can be heard. Yeah, that can be very emotional to watch. That I find.

Speaker 1:

Gosh, what do you think it is about? Sort of someone who maybe isn't a professional actor? Why is it so hard sometimes for them to find their voice? Do you think nerves is at the core of it, or is it it's what you say sort of being allowed to be heard and having that confidence, I guess, to speak.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's again, it's a fabulous question. I think the nerves are definitely a block, a barrier, potentially um a fear of not being right or or being wrong, um self-judgment, I think big factors into that thing. And again, you know, if somebody who isn't necessarily a professional speaker or performer or communicator, they aren't necessarily going to have worked those muscles as much and so it's a bit like I don't know if this is going to be okay I don't feel safe.

Speaker 1:

I don't feel safe in this.

Speaker 2:

But, like then, the more time and space that they're allowed to do that, the more they can go. Actually, I can take ownership of this. Yeah, this is mine and I want to be seen and heard and be present in the truth that I'm telling. And I think when I'm working with people in the capacity of kind of voice and acting, coaching and that kind of work, it's a privilege to be able to sit there and watch the person discover the work for themselves, because you just go try this, because I'm not a guru, I'm not a.

Speaker 2:

You know, there are people in the industry that are far more accomplished than I am, and there's, there's people that are very, you know, um, this sort of that have come before in the thousand years, years before that. But to be able to sort of question things and go is this, what if we try that? What happens if you do that? And then they, they take it on board for themselves. Amazing, it's a real privilege to be part of that process it's very exciting what would you say is your proudest achievement to date?

Speaker 2:

gosh. Um uh, it's still be.

Speaker 2:

It's still working as a professional actor 10 years into the industry 11 years, I think that's probably the most, the most proud, yeah, um, working, working creatively, um, do you know what it sounds? So cheesy, but genuinely, uh, the proudest achievement is to work with a community of talented, generous people. I think that, for me, is the proudest achievement. If you did go back to when I was living in North Yorkshire in a little village and kind of just starting on that process, going like maybe this would be quite fun, I don't know if it will work out, I don't know if it's a good idea, but I hope that people are good, the people are good and continue to be, and that is a process where I'm like, I'm always learning, trying things, and so it's a privilege to be there. So I think for me it's that privilege of being able to work in an industry like that, in a world which is sometimes, yeah, not everyone has that opportunity. So that, for me, is that.

Speaker 1:

Oh, rhys, you're amazing, thank you it's a pleasure.

Speaker 2:

I'm right back at you.